A Word On Faith

I engage with Christians, Muslims, Mormons and other sundry religionists online often. You might say I have a few years experience of these conversations under my belt, and if there's one thing this experience has taught me, it's that, ultimately, the final fallback of a religionist, when challenged, is "faith".

Demanding evidence, rebutting claims and generally pushing for justification ultimately comes back, one way or another, to faith. It is, you might say, foundational. I'm pretty sure most religious folks would agree with me on this.

So I figured I should post something about faith.

Mark Crislip, the narrator of the excellent Quackcast and Puscast, relates a story of his younger days. He tells how, when he was young, he thought that the Broadway in Portland, OR, was the same road as the more famous Broadway in New York, NY. This was his belief at the time, and it's easy to empathise with this, in a way.

Mark, of course, figured his way out of this conjecture in time. However it occurs to me; What if this was an article of faith?

Well, a man who believed this conjecture, this guess, as an article of faith would, based on my interaction with theists over the years, find a way to maintain this belief despite evidence to the contrary. He would still be believing this right now, even after his more skeptical contemporaries have moved on.

Here are just a couple of ways that a theist could reply to evidence countering this belief

  • "All the roads in the US are joined, one way or another. Clearly, then, the two Broadways are connected, and in a sense they are one and the same"
  • "The map you just showed me is not real. The cartographers who made it deny the reality of the oneness of Broadway, so they manufactured evidence to try and disprove it"
  • "I've spoken to someone that's driven the entire Broadway, and I'm assured that it really is all one road"
  • "You may have travelled that entire road, but you're not of the faith, therefore you cannot understand the connectedness of the roads"
  • It's Quantum (hat-tip: Deepak Chopra)

I often say to theists that "Faith is a guess". Ultimately, it is, but it's a guess held tightly and shored up with misunderstaning and fallacy, and a difficult thing to let go of. Theists, though, seem unwilling to actually drive the road and test their faith. You can offer them evidence, or lack of evidence, or demand evidence from them until you're blue in the face, but they'll always find a way around.

Ultimately, though, Broadway in Portland and Broadway in NY are two unconnected locations, linked only by a property assigned to them by people.

There is no "supreme road".

This, for me, speaks volumes.

posted @ Saturday, May 1, 2010 1:26 AM

 
 
 

Comments on this entry:

# re: A Word On Faith

Left by Matt at 5/2/2010 12:07 AM
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Heh. Quantum.
Excellent analogy, Jason. I've filed that one away for future use.

# re: A Word On Faith

Left by Rachael at 5/2/2010 8:40 PM
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Isn't belief different to faith?
To me, faith has something to do with trust - I trust that there is a God of love, and I'm willing to give him a try. I put my faith in him, trusting he won't let me down.
I would differentiate between the words "belief" and "faith". You see, in the bible the noun "belief" is never mentioned - it is just the verb "to believe" that is used. I believe that I can trust in God, put my faith in him, and he will hear me.

But as you said, as a child, Mark Crislip believed that two roads in two completely different places should be one and the same. I wouldn't call this believing of a misunderstanding "faith" - it's common for kids to misunderstand things, it's just part of being little and later changes whilst growing up.
Take for example the myth of Father Christmas.
Tons of little kids around the world grow up believing and trusting he exists, becaus this is what they were taught. But someday they will find out that they have been believing in a lie told to them by their own parents. I mean, as a grown man, prooving everything by science and common-sense, you would be one of the first to say that Father Christmas doesn't exist and is just another storytale charcater to encourage the immagination of little kids. And so, naturally, you know that this belief of little kids is not religious, it isn't a faith, no matter how hard these kids believe.

I know it's all a matter of faith and believing, and not everyone is willing to do so, but I think that life itself has more to it, and I have found my answer to it in God, Christian faith. You can give it a try and see for yourself -and if I was wrong, you haven*'t lost anything,anyway.

I'll pray for you.

# re: A Word On Faith

Left by Jason at 5/3/2010 11:34 AM
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Rachael,

I think you've missed the point I was trying to get at, completely. Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

Whether "faith" is "trust" matters not a jot in this context. We're talking about existence, and when challlenged for evidence of existence, theists always end up retreating to "faith", which fails to address the question.

"I have no evidence for the existence of this thing, but I have faith that it exists despite this", I guess.

But there's not a single jot of objective evidence that a god exists in the real world

There is no possible way to distinguish theists' concept of god from a simple delusion.

"You can give it a try and see for yourself -and if I was wrong, you haven*'t lost anything,anyway."

This is also a common trope. The primary and most important thing I wold lose is my connection to reality and my respect for evidence, but there are many other potential losses in choosing to believe despite the lack of evidence.

# re: A Word On Faith

Left by Charles at 5/3/2010 3:11 PM
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Nice post, Jason. Also: I learn words on this website. This I like. Trope trope trope. *opens dictionary*
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